SWA 1380: Pilots: Talk Dirty to Me

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 04/19/2018 at 15:33 • Filed to: None

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The broken window is surprisingly far back...

A report I read stated that the aircraft entered an uncommanded 41-degree roll. Why would this be? Yaw, I’d expect, but not a roll. Can you explain?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:43

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Not a pilot, but the engine does play a role in pulling air over the wing through maintaining the moving body of air. As well, sharp yaw, a disruption in airflow from the damaged engine exterior, and a change in nearly everything happening on that side, and a momentary loss of lift wouldn’t be a shock.

Mercedes Streeter > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:45

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Shot in the dark, but it probably happened around the time the engine exploded? You have yourself a shift in aero plus asymmetrical thrust in all of about an instant.

someassemblyrequired > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:46

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I have heard 737s can be a handful on one engine, and they did a 5 degree flap landing to avoid issues when landing (they landed about 30kt faster than normal). It may be that the asymmetric thrust caused the roll.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/19/2018 at 15:50

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Momentary loss of bladder or bowel control on the part of the pilots wouldn’t surprise me either.

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:51

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First, I would be skeptical of that being true until it’s verified. 41 degrees is a very oddly specific bank angle, TBH.

Second, I (obviously) haven’t flown a 737, but a lot of aircraft would have a tendency to roll into the dead engine, although it wouldn’t get very far before the crew intervened.

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:52

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The faster-flying side will go wing-up naturally, as that wing will suddenly create extra lift. Think of yaw as a precursor to roll. A severe yaw scenario will create roll.

Nothing to do with the lady being pulled out the window, the the g-forces would still have been primarily down into the seat.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:53

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Physics.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:53

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I’m thinking the loss of lift on the left wing with the left engine down caused it to roll until the captain and flaps were able to respond.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often 04/19/2018 at 15:54

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I did not assume that this added anything to Ms. Riorden’s being sucked out the window.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:59

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all the people on that side of the plane could see the that the engine exploded. they simultaneously shit their pants which created enough force to push down that side of the plane. when the other half of the passengers figured out what happened, they too shit their pants, evening out the plane.

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 15:59

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Someone else posted it, I was just covering all the bases — not directed at you.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 16:07

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Yaw and roll aren’t completely independent of each other, yaw can induce roll and vice versa. When the engine failed it increased drag on the left side. This would have caused the aircraft to yaw to the left. That yaw would have caused the right wing to create more lift from being perpendicular to airflow, and decreased the lift of the left wing due to its increased angle relative to airflow. At the same time airflow to the left wing would have been reduced as the fuselage shadowed airflow to the wing.

That yaw-roll coupling leads to some interesting aircraft behavior like the Dutch roll. The mechanism for the Dutch roll is very similar to what happened in this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll#Mechanism

Mercedes Streeter > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 04/19/2018 at 16:17

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Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 16:18

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*chuckles*

Well, it does not surprise me in the least which side I’m on.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/19/2018 at 16:40

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Initially I thought this wouldn’t be possible due to conservation of mass, but the bowel release was probably explosive as well, generating enough force to roll the plane.

Takuro Spirit > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/19/2018 at 16:40

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Am I just being morbid, or is that reddish-brown color on the windows aft of the blown out one.... blood?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Takuro Spirit 04/19/2018 at 16:46

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Fecal material from the cockpit. But I assume it’s Jennifer Riordan’s blood.

McMike > Takuro Spirit 04/19/2018 at 17:26

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Yeah, all those fake pilot selfies out the window are like, extra hilarious now.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 17:48

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And the right side goes faster and generates more lift, as explained by another Oppo.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired 04/19/2018 at 17:49

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A friend of mine got type-rated on the 737 — he flew a -200 Advanced for that test — and he said it was prone to “Dutch roll” with power cut to one engine.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW 04/19/2018 at 17:52

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Right. My friend the former P3 driver says when flying with an engine out, you’d always raise the wing with the dead engine. They frequently spent hours orbiting on station with an engine shut down to conserve fuel.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 04/19/2018 at 17:55

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I’ll look at this in a few. I have a friend who got type-rated on the 737 and he spoke to me of the 737's propensity to Dutch roll on one engine. Thanks for the link.

And this moment would have occurred at cruising speed. Airplane moving past lots of air...